Curse

Zeek Aran · Dec 27, 2007, 12:15 AM // 00:15

Didn't Witte already solo all of Tyria?

Burst Cancel · Dec 27, 2007, 12:22 AM // 00:22

Here's my problem with this philosophy: GW is a team game. Therefore, no matter how good *you* are, it won't make a significant difference if every other person in your party is a shit-munching moron (read: average player). Therefore, it's not actually a greater challenge so much as a complete waste of time.

This sort of exercise is simply playing Russian Roulette with your time - with all barrels loaded.

ProgTes · Dec 27, 2007, 12:24 AM // 00:24

What the heck, there's 4 pages of flame. This guy actually came up with an interesting idea (prolly done before, doesn't matter though) and he gets flamed and QQ-ed all over. You don't like it, you don't do it. If I was really bored in GW I might even try it, it could be fun if you're looking for a challenge. And we want challenges right? Oh wait, I'm wrong there. We just want our gear & titles and we want it as cheap and quick as possible with as little effort as possible. THAT is what the average GW-er nowadays wants. If you're one of those, then there's no need to flame him all over - just GTFO.

high priestess anya · Dec 27, 2007, 01:02 AM // 01:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zinger314

That's completely and utterly pointless.

That doesn't make PvE more difficult; it makes PvE masochistic.

i agree with this guy

bam23 · Dec 27, 2007, 02:21 AM // 02:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by aapo

You don't need to:
- Min-max everything. Making Necro with some Monk skills should be a valid choice for utilizing Soul Reaping, since PvE *is* easy. Every profession gets self-healing capability and party support skills.
- Go in with full 8 people. Think getting additional people as a bonus to ease the challenge. If the hardest areas of the game can be done with 2-people farming build, standard missions shouldn't require much else.

You would never beat the second half of any campaign like that. This idea won't work.

Vinraith · Dec 27, 2007, 02:25 AM // 02:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bryant Again

It's not like I H/H because "i hate dem noobs", I just don't have the time to set up for a party.

I don't "hate dem noobs" either, to be clear. I find the very notion of playing a game with people I don't know rather odd, to be honest. I don't play games to make friends, I play games with friends. Playing games with people I don't know, whether they be profoundly skilled or not, simply isn't my idea of a good time. I'm not the kind of person that thrives off of "meeting" new people and I don't think of the internet as a means of making real social contact. Gaming is what I do to get away from other people.

Vinraith · Dec 27, 2007, 02:27 AM // 02:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by aapo

- Min-max everything. Making Necro with some Monk skills should be a valid choice for utilizing Soul Reaping, since PvE *is* easy. Every profession gets self-healing capability and party support skills.

Actually a smite necro is a pretty viable option in undead heavy areas. How do you think I got through Shards of Orr?

Oh, and I profoundly disagree with literally everything else you said.

Tyla · Dec 27, 2007, 02:31 AM // 02:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nevin

Party (1/8): Looking for Tank, Nuker, Two Healers, MM, SS, 1 other.

I shudder'd
rangers and mesmers being flamed all over again...

bhavv · Dec 27, 2007, 02:38 AM // 02:38

Did I read correctly that someone actually thinks the OP's idea is more challenging them title hunting?

Yes playing NM with an unfunded character and only pugs is harder then then getting legendary guardian and vanquisher...

Actually I intended to put /sarcasm here, but come to think of it pugging NM probably is harder then H/H'ing HM. That isnt because the game is harder, its because pugs are shit.

Tyla · Dec 27, 2007, 02:44 AM // 02:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by bhavv

Yes playing NM with an unfunded character and only pugs is harder then then getting legendary guardian and vanquisher...

And what choice did people with only prophecies have apart from the henchmen, running bad builds, cant even manage them properly, full of fail, you are limited to proph only skills, the list goes on and on, and this challenge is only timewasting for the empty places with no pugs about anyway.

This is exactly the way people with only proph/factions started when there were no heroes, first char, and once again the list goes on and on.

Also i will like to add people who played mes/ranger were flamed for seemingly being junk.

And another thing: Proph armour buildups are kinda bad in my opinion.

Redfeather1975 · Dec 27, 2007, 02:48 AM // 02:48

Pugs are challenging because they are not auto-pilot.
It takes work to be patient.
It takes work to get everyone prepared.
It takes work to co-ordinate.
It takes work to be supportive in order to help those which are not very good at the game, instead of criticizing them.
It takes work to be willing to go back, adapt and try again.

To many Homer Simpsons here with the belief "...you tried your best and you failed miserably. The lesson is, never try." And as a result everyone is drifting away and isolating themselves, and the playerbase as a whole is getting no better.

You can't see me · Dec 27, 2007, 02:52 AM // 02:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Redfeather1975

Pugs are challenging because they are not auto-pilot.
It takes work to be patient.
It takes work to get everyone prepared.
It takes work to co-ordinate.
It takes work to be supportive in order to help those which are not very good at the game, instead of criticizing them.
It takes work to be willing to go back, adapt and try again.

To many Homer Simpsons here with the belief "...you tried your best and you failed miserably. The lesson is, never try."

You're right, but the fact that you're right doesn't help the OP with his point. It takes a lot of work to do something with a PuG. The trouble is, it's just redundant and boring and doesn't make it any more challenging.

By the way people, Challenging is not a Synonym of "Time Consuming" or "Repetative".

Redfeather1975 · Dec 27, 2007, 02:57 AM // 02:57

Then I think some people have the words challenging and rewarding mixed up in their brains.

Tyla · Dec 27, 2007, 02:59 AM // 02:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Redfeather1975

Pugs are challenging because they are not auto-pilot.

more reasons underneath

Quote:

It takes work to be patient.

but patience is a limited stock

Quote:

It takes work to get everyone prepared.

shame the average pug /rage when it takes like 2 mins to get a team together

Quote:

It takes work to co-ordinate.

shame the usual pug cant follow simple instructions

Quote:

It takes work to be supportive in order to help those which are not very good at the game, instead of criticizing them.

thats why pve guilds are there for

they listen out better i've found

Quote:

It takes work to be willing to go back, adapt and try again.

i agree here, but i will prefere to go back in time and as a newbie start from scratch

Quote:

To many Homer Simpsons here with the belief "...you tried your best and you failed miserably. The lesson is, never try."

This is my themetune

You can't see me · Dec 27, 2007, 03:05 AM // 03:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Redfeather1975

Then I think some people have the words challenging and rewarding mixed up in their brains.

I won't argue with that. No, this idea isn't rewarding. It just basically cuts off all shortcuts. It challenges your patience, which I have none of thanks to these forums. I don't see how this actually challenges your gameplay ability.

Go into Mission.
Ask for PuG.
Organize PuG.
Fail with PuG.
Repeat Steps 1-4 three times.
Find a Good PuG.
Get to next mission.
Merchant all drops.
Repeat.

Avarre · Dec 27, 2007, 03:10 AM // 03:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by aapo

- I really don't understand comments like this. Have you ever played a real-time-strategy game where you're given five choices for difficulty level?
Easiest
Easy
Normal
Hard
Hardest

You'd pick the easiest level because "liking challenging game is masochism". And the easiest level is such that you can go AFK for five minutes, come back and find out that the enemy hasn't made a single attack against your base. Then you research every upgrade on your own pace, make 40 mammoth tanks / pimped up paladins and go mow down the base of your sorry opponent who is just sitting there and waiting to be destroyed. And afterwards you feel like you've achieved something? It's a pretty good analogy to what Guild Wars is like with H/H team.

That's a sort of irrelevant analogy. Playing 'gimped' is a poor way of increasing difficulty, as much of Guru has mentioned regarding negative area effects.

A long-time player who tries this has to take into account that a great deal of their time is no longer playing, but rather gathering things for collector items, or forming teams. That's a warning sign right there; you're working more before you can even play the challenging and interesting part of the game.

Then, you take into account that most of the player's mission failures won't be because of the player, but rather group failures from PuGs (assuming there are even people available). So now you've got someone who has to sit around or grind to be able to continue the game how they enjoy it, and then they might have to do one thing over and over through no fault or failing of their own. It's not impossible to bring order to a PuG, but really, I don't play games to make children pay attention and work together.

As someone said earlier, you're not going to have the 'new' feeling of going through the game, and you're not going to be excited by new discoveries this time. I'd find this a really slow, dull slog to go through everything again without even being able to do things at my own pace.

Redfeather1975 · Dec 27, 2007, 03:22 AM // 03:22

I guess Guild Wars PvE quickly leans to rewards becoming the only motivation incentive to play and not the actual game play.
I've played games that were fun simply through playing and not getting any kind of reward. Those games were fun to play with PUGs. I guess I can see how GW game play can get boring after seeing and doing quite a lot, then the journey feels like a waste of time and the destination is more important.

Tyla · Dec 27, 2007, 03:24 AM // 03:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Redfeather1975

I can see how GW game play can get so boring that the journey feels like a waste of time and the destination is more important.

Yeah but thats after you have done it once already

Redfeather1975 · Dec 27, 2007, 03:29 AM // 03:29

Then guild wars needs gameplay like Unreal Tournament!

I like Unreal Tournament still.

I wonder if every reward was removed from GW if people would even bother playing it for fun for more than a week, just to experience the game play.
I wasn't being serious that I want Guild Wars to be an fps. But it might be cool if the game play were such that people would still want to log in years later just to run around and fight. Pew, pew pew.

Holly Herro · Dec 27, 2007, 04:12 AM // 04:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Redfeather1975

Then guild wars needs gameplay like Unreal Tournament!

I like Unreal Tournament still.

I wonder if every reward was removed from GW if people would even bother playing it for fun for more than a week, just to experience the game play.
I wasn't being serious that I want Guild Wars to be an fps. But it might be cool if the game play were such that people would still want to log in years later just to run around and fight. Pew, pew pew.

Hellgate london?